The future of Ning and making networks work

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Wilcox on September 21, 2011 at 12:09

Thanks Julian - I think this does offer a great opportunity to connect the spaces and networkers, and look at ways to do more in future. There's also some great local community Nings like Harringay Online and W14 & SW 6 

Anyone know of other Ning sites?

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Permalink Reply by Lorna Prescott on September 22, 2011 at 11:40

Hi both

 

Thanks for starting this discussion Julian. It raised for me questions about both the ethics of the companies behind online platforms, and in relation to Glam, huge concerns about consumption, materialism, and the objectification of women. Do you think it's worth asking the Ethical Consumer if they have or could research online networking platforms (I haven't spotted anything in their magazines to date)? I think this is really important, given the values that users of our networks have, and the discussions we have. It would feel rather hypocritical to be having the sorts of debates and discussions that we do whilst handing over money to Glam in order to be able to have the discussions.       

 

David - another Ning network is run by community development specialists changes  http://network.changesuk.net/ - they may want to join the debate.

 

Cheers

Lorna

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Permalink Reply by David Wilcox on September 22, 2011 at 13:28

Thanks Lorna. This does give us - and others - the chance to think about options

1. Stay with Ning (if we are happy after investigation)
2. Look at alternatives
3. Or review whether it makes sense to continue to develop lots of unconnected local and national online social spaces that struggle to survive

If we look at 3. I would not advocate a central super-site, but instead looking at the way here that the Transition Network have created an aggregating site ... pulling content from local projects rather than recruiting people to a central space.

They are now animating that with a social reporting programme

The advantage is that you stimulate and support local action, while building strength through the network. It does, of course,  require central facilitation and tech management.

It would be a step change in style and activity for Our Society ...  but would enable us and others to connect local and national initiatives. 

Big Lottery Fund is developing a Village SOS learning network, but there is no urban equivalent planned that I know of.

I'm not in any sense suggesting Our Society try and be the network of networks ... but we could develop ideas for an alternative distributed architecture - perhaps with help from Transition - and see who else is interested in that approach. 

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Permalink Reply by Emma Lees on September 22, 2011 at 14:02

Hi David.

 

Although some of this debate goes over my head :) I think its worth looking at trying to connect and develop new ways of working.

 

I agree with Lorna - that we need to look at who we are paying money to, and I share her concerns about ethics.

 

I also raised the issues with Joe Taylor from NatCan yesterday.

 

Emma

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Permalink Reply by David Wilcox on September 22, 2011 at 14:46

Thanks Emma 

If Our Society - and others like NatCan - decided on a more networky way of doing things, it might involved

1. Reviewing what to use for the home base - Ning or others

2. Making more effort to go where people are, like Facebook, Twitter etc. These are unlikely to be wholly ethical .... but that's life offline too:-)

3. More joining up of the online spaces, as Transition is doing

Great if Joe would join in here or on NatCan

 

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Permalink Reply by Phil Green on September 22, 2011 at 18:34

Hi all, for me this discussion echoes a couple of others: 1. when ning moved from free to charging for hosting and 2. when and as advertising became more and more intrusive on wikia wiki.

1. I was beginning to be aware of a few more ning hyperlocal sites, had started one myself a few months earlier, and tried to follow the discussions / 'exit strategies' / alternatives investigated by ning creators at that time. In summary even though I looked at many alternatives, suggested by a whole range of people on the creators network I couldn't find anything which came anywhere near close to matching ning for popularity, user friendliness, support to creators, etc. Ok that was a little while ago, and of course there may always be new stuff coming along.

2. Inappropriate advertising can seem to be hugely damaging when trying to build communities around stuff such as sustainability. Again at one point I made a serious effort to find an alternative, but again with no luck. So I suppose what I'm saying is that if it turns out that you can't find a viable alternative you may need to decide whether its worth having something with all its flaws as opposed to nothing at all.

I'm not particularly pushing this because it has a very different feel to ning, but Wiser Earth remains free, and possibly more likely to be a happy match if it's ethics which are the paramount concern.

Whilst it's great when networks can do their own thing, essentially build their own platform as Transtion Network have done, (and as Project Dirt are doing),  it doesn't seem to me that this is a particularly realistic option (at least yet) for Our Society, as we haven't necessarily attracted enough techie poeple who could help us build stuff.

Assuming there's enough interest in the ideas around talking amongst like minded networks, one of the ways this could be done is to set up a group for this. Of course this needn't be a separate ning (or other kind of site possibly with costs) but a group on an existing site. Our Society could perhaps work for this kind of thing. At least 3 creators of ning networks metioned are already members of Our Society. It would perhaps be important to stress, and others could perhaps find ways to be clear or more comprehensive about this, that this would in no way, shape or form be about impinging on the autonomy or independence of networks, just a space to discuss and articulate stuff of mutual concern. I had a go at something like this once in connection with wikis, which I called 'Society Gardens', but someone else can maybe suggest a better name?

So the group would be about something like nurturing networks via mutual support. (Either just ning ones or something wider) . One of the best ways I  found (so far) to try and get across what kinds of wikis (networks) somethign like 'Society Gardens' might involve is that they're about creating something with hopefully civic, rather than (only) social value (1)

1. Clay Shirky: How cognitive surplus will change the world, June 2010 video here  (quite long at just under 14 mins)

David / others: the above proposal is not intended in any way to be a 'network of networks' type solution just a specific space for many possible threads, as I think Julian hints at in his intro, which can be part of the mix, compatible with and contributing to "distributed architecture"

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Mowatt on September 24, 2011 at 20:02

I think we've had this conversation about alternative networks before here. I've been using SocialGo for about a year for both a  hyperlocal community action network and a network focussed on social business.

 

For me, it's cleaner than Ning, but I never got an answer from the creators as to whether the features they include for Your Square Mile will be made available to networks with the same local focus.

 

One of the problems I discover in my human networking is the silo mentality among VCOs. Invited to visit a council funded network recently for example, I gained a very clear impression that 800 local organisations were held on their internal database and that's where they were going to stay.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by David Wilcox on September 24, 2011 at 20:33

Indeed Jeff - network platforms is one thing, networky organisations is another. The first doesn't create the second.

Jeff Mowatt said:

I think we've had this conversation about alternative networks before here. I've been using SocialGo for about a year for both a  hyperlocal community action network and a network focussed on social business.

 

For me, it's cleaner than Ning, but I never got an answer from the creators as to whether the features they include for Your Square Mile will be made available to networks with the same local focus.

 

One of the problems I discover in my human networking is the silo mentality among VCOs. Invited to visit a council funded network recently for example, I gained a very clear impression that 800 local organisations were held on their internal database and that's where they were going to stay.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Nick Wilding on September 25, 2011 at 23:30

Hi Julian, David and all

Just catching up with this conversation - I agree this is a good time to convene a conversation taking stock of existing ning experiments, learning from each others' practice hosting these sites, and doing some collaborative thinking about 'what next'.... so count me in...

There is HUGE potential to innovate connections between ning sites and beyond; it's a clear case of win-win and an obvious next evolutionary step ...

When we set up fieryspirits.com ning was brand new and has served us fairly well so far - but we have recently begun a review that's including a bit of work scoping lots of rural networks to see who's using what. This may turn up some useful clues, as well as just underlining the potential value in getting better at linking/supporting/bridging between initiatives...

An offer - If there's any thirst for a face-face conversation at some point, I can offer a great room at our HQ at Carnegie and may be able to support some travel costs for folks who'd need them.

Thanks for kicking this conversation off Julian ...

Nick

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Permalink Reply by julian dobson on September 26, 2011 at 15:15

Nick, thanks for the offer and a great idea. I do think there are a lot of Ning (and other) networks around that would benefit from some kind of robust, independent shared platform - Community Land Trusts, Meanwhile Space and Community Activists Network are just three that spring to mind. There are a lot of us operating in overlapping spaces with different approaches to achieving social benefit. I wonder whether having invested in the Your Square Mile platform the Big Lottery Fund might look to gain maximum value from it by opening it up to a much wider range of networks? Or is there another way of doing it? 

 

Is there value in having a small unconference-style event or workshop around this?

Nick Wilding said:

Hi Julian, David and all

Just catching up with this conversation - I agree this is a good time to convene a conversation taking stock of existing ning experiments, learning from each others' practice hosting these sites, and doing some collaborative thinking about 'what next'.... so count me in...

There is HUGE potential to innovate connections between ning sites and beyond; it's a clear case of win-win and an obvious next evolutionary step ...

When we set up fieryspirits.com ning was brand new and has served us fairly well so far - but we have recently begun a review that's including a bit of work scoping lots of rural networks to see who's using what. This may turn up some useful clues, as well as just underlining the potential value in getting better at linking/supporting/bridging between initiatives...

An offer - If there's any thirst for a face-face conversation at some point, I can offer a great room at our HQ at Carnegie and may be able to support some travel costs for folks who'd need them.

Thanks for kicking this conversation off Julian ...

Nick

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Mowatt on September 26, 2011 at 15:23

Julian,

 

This was the question about Your Square Mile I mentioned above

 

http://owners.socialgo.com/forum/topic/1422

 

Looks like they've go a new version now too.

 

There are quite a few community network software products out there. There's money still being handed out to create them too.    

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Permalink Reply by julian dobson on September 26, 2011 at 15:28

Yes - wouldn't it be good to spend less money on developing software and more on developing people? That's where I'd like this to end up.

Jeff Mowatt said:

Julian,

 

This was the question about Your Square Mile I mentioned above

 

http://owners.socialgo.com/forum/topic/1422

 

Looks like they've go a new version now too.

 

There are quite a few community network software products out there. There's money still being handed out to create them too.    

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